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Talk:Twin Crescent Poleaxe (3.5e Equipment)
Well thanks a lot mr. give-the-plot-away I was about to read that volume of the manga! CURSE YOU! But seriously please take the picture down.--ThirdEmperor 07:12, November 10, 2009 (UTC) :Well, I myself have never read the manga and this isn't really much of a spoiler I'd think... that and no other picture exists that I've seen illustrate this weapon.--Gd1w 00:32, November 11, 2009 (UTC) ::Then photoshop the weapon out! And ya from what I interpret about it it's a BIG spoiler.--ThirdEmperor 07:06, November 11, 2009 (UTC) :::My photoshop skills suck. However, since you seem to be familiar with it... if you can photoshop the picture to just show the weapon and edit this page with the new picture, I'll accept that. In short: I'm delegating the responsibility to you.--Gd1w 21:57, November 11, 2009 (UTC) ::::I don't own photoshop (my computer is prehistoric) but I do have minor sketch skills, let me see if I can draw this.--ThirdEmperor 22:39, November 11, 2009 (UTC) ::::: Bam, copy this: --Ganteka Future 02:26, November 13, 2009 (UTC) Balance This weapon is really unbalanced--and no, the higher cost doesn't "balance it out", since it's arbitrary at all but the lowest levels. Let's compare to the spiked chain, a weapon already hailed as amongst the most powerful of the exotic weapons. This weapon has higher damage, MUCH higher crit range, and the biggest advantage of the spiked chain, reach both adjacent to the character as well as double their normal reach. In short, the weapon isn't balanced to those presented in the PHB. --Ghostwheel 09:14, November 11, 2009 (UTC) :I added a strength requirement and since you'd probably say that fighters get STR maxed anyway, I added a feat that most fighters wouldn't normally take. So now, you have to blow 2 feats and specialize in STR to wield this weapon. (I feel that the extra feat cost at the very least balances it out)--Gd1w 21:55, November 11, 2009 (UTC) :: So let's compare to two "equivalent" feats--Exotic Weapon Proficiency, and Improved Critical. With a spiked chain, you still won't reach that damage, the higher crit range, AND it wouldn't stack with Keen or similar enhancements (and you'd need a BAB of +8 to take it). Thus, still unbalanced. -- 22:13, November 11, 2009 (UTC) :::This isn't in line with the PHB weapons, but I'm actually pretty ok with that. It's a greatsword / falchion hybrid with reach that can attack adjacent and trip. It's a big enough upgrade that it might actually be worth the exotic weapon feat and sticking yourself with a single obscure weapon type for the rest of your career. So while it is out of line with other PHB weapons, it doesn't feel out of line for a gear dependent feat benefit (while weapon focus and spec and whatnot are out of line for a gear dependent feat benefit even if they are the benchmark). Rather than make them take a second feat, I think I'd put a BAB requirement on it so that it stayed out of low levels where it's a bigger deal. I honestly wouldn't care if a fighter was running around with this at 8 after spending a feat on it though. Yes, it's better than the spiked chain (unless you want to disarm, but meh), but I generally think that none of the exotics are worth the feat because the boost is so insignificant. - TarkisFlux 22:22, November 11, 2009 (UTC) ::::Amending after further consideration. I stand by my previous statements, but it potentially has some retraining issues (just hit 8, reselected all of my feats to fit new weapon and did not suffer for having to delay acquisition at all) and generally sits outside of the equipment paradigms of 3.x (which I don't like so much, but that isn't really relevant atm). You're not generally supposed to trade up to better base weapons, just the same base weapon that happens to have better enchantments on it. And this is pretty far outside of the area staked out by base weapons. That said, I still quite like it, but think it would be better served as a piece of a variant rule where there were lots of similar "trade up to a better base weapon" options (and were restricted to fighters or whatever). If you don't want to develop such a framework, you should probably drop the trip and either drop the reach or drop the threat to 20, and build it like any other exotic weapon available for the low low price of setting a feat on fire. - TarkisFlux 01:50, November 12, 2009 (UTC) :::::let it be a 18 or 19-20 2d6 x2 exotic 10ft reach weapon with a bonus on trip. drop the agile and strength thing, and if peoople wanna weild it closer, make'em take short haft. still a strong exotic weapon, but more inline with the PH weapons--NameViolation 08:58, November 12, 2009 (UTC) ::::::I have no idea what short haft is, but how about to wield it close you need STR 18 and to make trip attempts with it you need DEX 18? Because now that I think about it, it would be hard to wield something that heavy close and it doesn't exactly have a hook on it so tripping would take a bit of finesse.--Gd1w 19:12, November 12, 2009 (UTC) :::::::Changes made, dropped extra feat requirement and reduced minimum STR score requirement to wield. Most fighters do not opt for high dexterity due to armor but if they want both they will need it. 18-20/x2 is because of the curved edges keening effect. 2d6 is because of the weight and size of the weapon. So there it is.--Gd1w 19:16, November 12, 2009 (UTC) :::::::: "Curved edges" is purely a flavorful thing, that which is mutable and has very little effect on mechanics and balance, which are more important. Furthermore, tripping isn't the only way to do crowd control--Stand Still or Large and in Charge are two other examples. So... even with the changes, 18-20 range threat in addition to the damage, reach, etc, isn't balanced. --Ghostwheel 19:34, November 12, 2009 (UTC) :::::::::short haft is in phb2. it lets you use a free action to use a reach weapon as if it didn't have reach, so you can attack adjacant enemy's--NameViolation 23:33, November 12, 2009 (UTC) ::::::::::Sounds good, removing reach and STR requirement for close range (though not for wielding). Also removing trip ability since I honestly can't see it being very easy to trip with this weapon. ::::::::::: Looks okay, I'd even say that you could up the damage to 2d8 if you wanted to since it's an exotic weapons. --Ghostwheel 01:36, November 13, 2009 (UTC) ::::::::::::Either that or give it back trip / disarm bonuses. As is it's a SRD:Ranseur or SRD:Guisarme with damage instead of a combat trick bonus and crit range instead of crit multiplier, and those are just martial weapons. Yeah, you can get away with adding something minor to this still. - TarkisFlux 02:07, November 13, 2009 (UTC) Any ideas on what could be done with a power attack for a combat trick on this weapon?--Gd1w 03:02, November 13, 2009 (UTC) Hmmm..... Maybe give it the ability to whirlwind attack everybody in close range? That's worth burning a feat on it. And it wouldn't be overpowered because you could only take full-attacks on people far away.--ThirdEmperor 09:11, November 13, 2009 (UTC) Alternate Balance Idea A thought from a different thread. The original wasn't balanced with standard exotic weapons, but it may have been balanced against standard +2 or +3 exotic weapons. You might be able to get what you want out of it by treating it as a +2 or +3 weapon for purposes of cost and adding magic to it, so a Twin Crescent Poleaxe would cost as much as a +2 or +3 Greatsword (which could have keen and flaming and other things on it that balance it against the poleaxe before the exotic is taken into account). And a +1 twin crescent poleaxe would cost as much as a +3 or +4 greatsword. And you could only get it up to +7 or +8 in properties (before epic) because of it's inherent abilities. It's still a non-standard setup, but it's working with the existing setup in a more relevant way by balancing it against alternative items (which would be magic items in this case instead of mundane items). And it might even allow you to drop some of the other restrictions. - TarkisFlux 20:09, November 12, 2009 (UTC)